Discussion:
Rosen rips Jerry West
(too old to reply)
s_knight8
2004-07-22 14:30:47 UTC
Permalink
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2592722

With all the hullabaloo involved in the Lakers' trading Shaq and re-signing
Kobe, Phil Jackson seems to be the forgotten man. Even worse, after winning
three championships during his five years in Los Angeles (and six in
Chicago), the local L.A. press has taken to denigrating Jackson's
accomplishments.

After all, the argument goes, Jackson was a passive coach who merely rode
the talents of such great players as Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaq
and Kobe (no matter that both MJ and Shaq had been ringless in their six NBA
seasons before benefiting from PJ's counsel). One L.A. media muppet even
branded Jackson's tenure there as "a failed experiment," and he's also been
dismissed as the "Zen Hen."
Say what?

Granted that the scribes who cover the NBA generally can't distinguish an X
from an O, and that they think they can objectively evaluate what a player
does when they have no idea what he's supposed to be doing - the culprit
who's ultimately responsible for these peevish, ignorant judgments is none
other than Jerry West.

The truth is that before Jackson blew into town, West was the Lakers
executive VP for basketball operations yet was profoundly dissatisfied with
the terms of his employment. Although West was paid approximately $700K per
season, he yearned for at least $1 million. Also, West felt that since he'd
been part of the organization ever since the Lakers relocated from
Minneapolis in 1960 (as All-Star player, then as coach, consultant and
general manager), he deserved to be given a piece of the team. After all,
Magic Johnson didn't arrive in La-La Land until 1979 and Jerry Buss had
presented him with a part-ownership deal soon after his retirement.

Moreover, for lo these many years West had taken (and been universally
granted) the credit for drafting Magic out of Michigan State. This momentous
decision was, in fact, the cornerstone of West's claim to administrative
greatness.

The fact of the matter, however, is that West was determined to use the
Lakers' first pick (and the NBA's first overall) to draft not Magic, but
Sidney Moncrief. It was only after prolonged hours of being convinced
otherwise by both Bill Sharman and Chick Hearn that West finally yielded and
selected Magic.

West has likewise taken credit for building the Magic-Jabbar-Worthy dynasty,
when it was Sharman who did much of the planning.

Did both Shaq and Kobe come to L.A. during West's watch? Certainly, but here
again, others pulled the strings - various combinations of lawyers and
businessmen, and in O'Neal's case, Dale Brown.

Even so, Jerry West was an icon in Tinseltown. Not only was he Mister Clutch
and the Logo-Man, he was also Mister Laker. The local media adored him and
hung on his every pronouncement. Only when Jackson signed his five-year, $30
million contract with the Lakers did Dr. Buss finally grant West the
million-dollar pact he'd been seeking for so long. Still, from the get-go,
West was resentful of Jackson's presence. Why should Jackson be hailed as
the franchise's savior when West had been performing miracles on and off the
court for more than 40 years? Besides, back when they'd competed against
each other, West wasn't appreciative of Jackson's aggressive elbows.

The very first pronouncement of West's that I personally witnessed occurred
just before the Lakers' initial preseason practice session in October 1999.
As a longtime friend of Jackson's, I felt obliged to offer West a small
warning: "Phil's teams always start off slowly while they're learning the
triangle."

West's sour response was this: "He's got six weeks."

Turned out that after six weeks, the Lakers were 31-6 and West was even more
resentful than before. His most wished-for scenario was for the Lakers to
collapse and for Buss to beg him to save the team. Part-ownership, unlimited
power, bucks galore - Buss would gladly accede to whatever West required.
When West's dream turned into a personal nightmare, he began to actively
undermine Jackson.

Part of Jackson's game plan was to create an environment where the players
mostly disciplined themselves. This, because he understood that any
directives coming from civilians are viewed by players as being
heavy-handed, intrusive, and misguided. (So when Pippen refused to play in
the infamous "1.8 Seconds Game" against the Knicks, it was his teammates who
effectively reprimanded him.) But word was leaked from West to friendly L.A.
journalists that Jackson was a do-nothing coach. Also that the triangle was
bogus and that Kobe was being underutilized. With West as the conduit, the
previously secret news of Jackson's relationship with Jeannie Buss was fed
to scandal-hungry press-peepers in Chicago.

And so it went: Overpaying draft picks to constrict the money available for
free agents. Not providing the backup big man the Lakers needed. Spreading
rumors that Kobe was going to sue Jackson for defamation of character. And
generally promulgating ubiquitous undercurrents of disrespect.

Has West done an admirable job in resurrecting the fortunes of the Memphis
Grizzlies? Absolutely.

In so many other aspects, however, West's squeaky-clean reputation as a
genius is less than meets the eye.

NOTE - Because Jackson always accepts personal responsibility for his own
failings, I relied on other sources for all of the above information.
Bryan Smith
2004-07-22 15:17:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by s_knight8
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2592722
With all the hullabaloo involved in the Lakers' trading Shaq and re-signing
Kobe, Phil Jackson seems to be the forgotten man. Even worse, after winning
three championships during his five years in Los Angeles (and six in
Chicago), the local L.A. press has taken to denigrating Jackson's
accomplishments.
After all, the argument goes, Jackson was a passive coach who merely rode
the talents of such great players as Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaq
and Kobe (no matter that both MJ and Shaq had been ringless in their six NBA
seasons before benefiting from PJ's counsel). One L.A. media muppet even
branded Jackson's tenure there as "a failed experiment," and he's also been
dismissed as the "Zen Hen."
Say what?
Granted that the scribes who cover the NBA generally can't distinguish an X
from an O, and that they think they can objectively evaluate what a player
does when they have no idea what he's supposed to be doing - the culprit
who's ultimately responsible for these peevish, ignorant judgments is none
other than Jerry West.
The truth is that before Jackson blew into town, West was the Lakers
executive VP for basketball operations yet was profoundly dissatisfied with
the terms of his employment. Although West was paid approximately $700K per
season, he yearned for at least $1 million. Also, West felt that since he'd
been part of the organization ever since the Lakers relocated from
Minneapolis in 1960 (as All-Star player, then as coach, consultant and
general manager), he deserved to be given a piece of the team. After all,
Magic Johnson didn't arrive in La-La Land until 1979 and Jerry Buss had
presented him with a part-ownership deal soon after his retirement.
Moreover, for lo these many years West had taken (and been universally
granted) the credit for drafting Magic out of Michigan State. This momentous
decision was, in fact, the cornerstone of West's claim to administrative
greatness.
The fact of the matter, however, is that West was determined to use the
Lakers' first pick (and the NBA's first overall) to draft not Magic, but
Sidney Moncrief. It was only after prolonged hours of being convinced
otherwise by both Bill Sharman and Chick Hearn that West finally yielded and
selected Magic.
West has likewise taken credit for building the Magic-Jabbar-Worthy dynasty,
when it was Sharman who did much of the planning.
Did both Shaq and Kobe come to L.A. during West's watch? Certainly, but here
again, others pulled the strings - various combinations of lawyers and
businessmen, and in O'Neal's case, Dale Brown.
Even so, Jerry West was an icon in Tinseltown. Not only was he Mister Clutch
and the Logo-Man, he was also Mister Laker. The local media adored him and
hung on his every pronouncement. Only when Jackson signed his five-year, $30
million contract with the Lakers did Dr. Buss finally grant West the
million-dollar pact he'd been seeking for so long. Still, from the get-go,
West was resentful of Jackson's presence. Why should Jackson be hailed as
the franchise's savior when West had been performing miracles on and off the
court for more than 40 years? Besides, back when they'd competed against
each other, West wasn't appreciative of Jackson's aggressive elbows.
The very first pronouncement of West's that I personally witnessed occurred
just before the Lakers' initial preseason practice session in October 1999.
As a longtime friend of Jackson's, I felt obliged to offer West a small
warning: "Phil's teams always start off slowly while they're learning the
triangle."
West's sour response was this: "He's got six weeks."
Turned out that after six weeks, the Lakers were 31-6 and West was even more
resentful than before. His most wished-for scenario was for the Lakers to
collapse and for Buss to beg him to save the team. Part-ownership, unlimited
power, bucks galore - Buss would gladly accede to whatever West required.
When West's dream turned into a personal nightmare, he began to actively
undermine Jackson.
Part of Jackson's game plan was to create an environment where the players
mostly disciplined themselves. This, because he understood that any
directives coming from civilians are viewed by players as being
heavy-handed, intrusive, and misguided. (So when Pippen refused to play in
the infamous "1.8 Seconds Game" against the Knicks, it was his teammates who
effectively reprimanded him.) But word was leaked from West to friendly L.A.
journalists that Jackson was a do-nothing coach. Also that the triangle was
bogus and that Kobe was being underutilized. With West as the conduit, the
previously secret news of Jackson's relationship with Jeannie Buss was fed
to scandal-hungry press-peepers in Chicago.
And so it went: Overpaying draft picks to constrict the money available for
free agents. Not providing the backup big man the Lakers needed. Spreading
rumors that Kobe was going to sue Jackson for defamation of character. And
generally promulgating ubiquitous undercurrents of disrespect.
Has West done an admirable job in resurrecting the fortunes of the Memphis
Grizzlies? Absolutely.
In so many other aspects, however, West's squeaky-clean reputation as a
genius is less than meets the eye.
NOTE - Because Jackson always accepts personal responsibility for his own
failings, I relied on other sources for all of the above information.
Coming from anyone other than Rosen, it might raise a few eyebrows.
Since it is Rosen, it is nothing more than a hit piece by the agent of
Coach
Machiavelli.
drg
2004-07-22 17:42:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by s_knight8
In so many other aspects, however, West's squeaky-clean reputation as a
genius is less than meets the eye.
NOTE - Because Jackson always accepts personal responsibility for his own
failings, I relied on other sources for all of the above information.
Wow. Rosen is an ass. Why the hell would he go after West? West trying
to sabotage the Lakers. Absolutely ridiculous. I remember hearing that
West had a meeting/dinner with Kobe during the 2001 season after Phil
did nothing to repair the relationship between Shaq and Kobe. In
fact, didn't Phil just add fuel to the fire by talking about Kobe
sabotaging his high school games. I think that meeting more than
anything was responsible for the Lakers going on that 15-1 run in the
playoffs. Kobe was able to check his personal ambitions for the sake
of the team after talking to West.
PeterL
2004-07-22 17:45:30 UTC
Permalink
Does anyone even care what Rosen writes anymore?
Post by s_knight8
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2592722
With all the hullabaloo involved in the Lakers' trading Shaq and re-signing
Kobe, Phil Jackson seems to be the forgotten man. Even worse, after winning
three championships during his five years in Los Angeles (and six in
Chicago), the local L.A. press has taken to denigrating Jackson's
accomplishments.
After all, the argument goes, Jackson was a passive coach who merely rode
the talents of such great players as Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaq
and Kobe (no matter that both MJ and Shaq had been ringless in their six NBA
seasons before benefiting from PJ's counsel). One L.A. media muppet even
branded Jackson's tenure there as "a failed experiment," and he's also been
dismissed as the "Zen Hen."
Say what?
Granted that the scribes who cover the NBA generally can't distinguish an X
from an O, and that they think they can objectively evaluate what a player
does when they have no idea what he's supposed to be doing - the culprit
who's ultimately responsible for these peevish, ignorant judgments is none
other than Jerry West.
The truth is that before Jackson blew into town, West was the Lakers
executive VP for basketball operations yet was profoundly dissatisfied with
the terms of his employment. Although West was paid approximately $700K per
season, he yearned for at least $1 million. Also, West felt that since he'd
been part of the organization ever since the Lakers relocated from
Minneapolis in 1960 (as All-Star player, then as coach, consultant and
general manager), he deserved to be given a piece of the team. After all,
Magic Johnson didn't arrive in La-La Land until 1979 and Jerry Buss had
presented him with a part-ownership deal soon after his retirement.
Moreover, for lo these many years West had taken (and been universally
granted) the credit for drafting Magic out of Michigan State. This momentous
decision was, in fact, the cornerstone of West's claim to administrative
greatness.
The fact of the matter, however, is that West was determined to use the
Lakers' first pick (and the NBA's first overall) to draft not Magic, but
Sidney Moncrief. It was only after prolonged hours of being convinced
otherwise by both Bill Sharman and Chick Hearn that West finally yielded and
selected Magic.
West has likewise taken credit for building the Magic-Jabbar-Worthy dynasty,
when it was Sharman who did much of the planning.
Did both Shaq and Kobe come to L.A. during West's watch? Certainly, but here
again, others pulled the strings - various combinations of lawyers and
businessmen, and in O'Neal's case, Dale Brown.
Even so, Jerry West was an icon in Tinseltown. Not only was he Mister Clutch
and the Logo-Man, he was also Mister Laker. The local media adored him and
hung on his every pronouncement. Only when Jackson signed his five-year, $30
million contract with the Lakers did Dr. Buss finally grant West the
million-dollar pact he'd been seeking for so long. Still, from the get-go,
West was resentful of Jackson's presence. Why should Jackson be hailed as
the franchise's savior when West had been performing miracles on and off the
court for more than 40 years? Besides, back when they'd competed against
each other, West wasn't appreciative of Jackson's aggressive elbows.
The very first pronouncement of West's that I personally witnessed occurred
just before the Lakers' initial preseason practice session in October 1999.
As a longtime friend of Jackson's, I felt obliged to offer West a small
warning: "Phil's teams always start off slowly while they're learning the
triangle."
West's sour response was this: "He's got six weeks."
Turned out that after six weeks, the Lakers were 31-6 and West was even more
resentful than before. His most wished-for scenario was for the Lakers to
collapse and for Buss to beg him to save the team. Part-ownership, unlimited
power, bucks galore - Buss would gladly accede to whatever West required.
When West's dream turned into a personal nightmare, he began to actively
undermine Jackson.
Part of Jackson's game plan was to create an environment where the players
mostly disciplined themselves. This, because he understood that any
directives coming from civilians are viewed by players as being
heavy-handed, intrusive, and misguided. (So when Pippen refused to play in
the infamous "1.8 Seconds Game" against the Knicks, it was his teammates who
effectively reprimanded him.) But word was leaked from West to friendly L.A.
journalists that Jackson was a do-nothing coach. Also that the triangle was
bogus and that Kobe was being underutilized. With West as the conduit, the
previously secret news of Jackson's relationship with Jeannie Buss was fed
to scandal-hungry press-peepers in Chicago.
And so it went: Overpaying draft picks to constrict the money available for
free agents. Not providing the backup big man the Lakers needed. Spreading
rumors that Kobe was going to sue Jackson for defamation of character. And
generally promulgating ubiquitous undercurrents of disrespect.
Has West done an admirable job in resurrecting the fortunes of the Memphis
Grizzlies? Absolutely.
In so many other aspects, however, West's squeaky-clean reputation as a
genius is less than meets the eye.
NOTE - Because Jackson always accepts personal responsibility for his own
failings, I relied on other sources for all of the above information.
greg brown
2004-07-22 18:00:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by s_knight8
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2592722
The truth is that before Jackson blew into town, West was the Lakers
executive VP for basketball operations yet was profoundly dissatisfied with
the terms of his employment. Although West was paid approximately $700K per
season, he yearned for at least $1 million. Also, West felt that since he'd
been part of the organization ever since the Lakers relocated from
Minneapolis in 1960 (as All-Star player, then as coach, consultant and
general manager), he deserved to be given a piece of the team. After all,
Magic Johnson didn't arrive in La-La Land until 1979 and Jerry Buss had
presented him with a part-ownership deal soon after his retirement.
Moreover, for lo these many years West had taken (and been universally
granted) the credit for drafting Magic out of Michigan State. This momentous
decision was, in fact, the cornerstone of West's claim to administrative
greatness.
By now I believe most Lakers fans are aware of the story of West wanting to
draft Moncrief over Magic. But West is also the guy who insisted on drafting
Worthy over the more hyped "Human Highlight Film", Dominique Wilkins. West
was also responsible for persuading Buss not to trade Worthy for Roy
Tarpley, and Mark Aguirre. West brought in Bob Mcadoo in '81 when everyone
thought McAdoo's career was over. He traded Norm Nixon for the number one
guard drafted in the '93 draft, Byron Scott(I personally thought Norm was a
better player, but Scott was a better fit for the Lakers). From what I have
read, West was also against the Eddie/Elden for Rice trade. And then there
is the 3 time champions built at the beginning of 2000.

There are many other stories like these that illustrate why West is the best
GM in the history of the game.

For a long time I believed that West left the team because of a dispute over
money and power, but I have heard him deny this with his own voice. Only
West knows for sure, but I have enough respect for Jerry to simply accept
his word on the matter and move on.

I have no such respect for Charlie Rosen. From what I have read, I believe
he is a hack writer looking to forward a personal agenda that would see his
career, as it were, go in the same direction as Peter Vescey or Stephen A.
Smith. He is hoping that his inflammatory, psuedo-controversial and shrill
exaggerations, distortions, fabrications and outright lies, will be his
vehicle for success.

At all times Rosen should be aggressively ignored.

Greg
Alson Wong
2004-07-22 21:34:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by greg brown
By now I believe most Lakers fans are aware of the story of West wanting to
draft Moncrief over Magic. But West is also the guy who insisted on drafting
Worthy over the more hyped "Human Highlight Film", Dominique Wilkins. West
was also responsible for persuading Buss not to trade Worthy for Roy
Tarpley, and Mark Aguirre. West brought in Bob Mcadoo in '81 when everyone
thought McAdoo's career was over. He traded Norm Nixon for the number one
guard drafted in the '93 draft, Byron Scott(I personally thought Norm was a
better player, but Scott was a better fit for the Lakers). From what I have
read, West was also against the Eddie/Elden for Rice trade. And then there
is the 3 time champions built at the beginning of 2000.
There are many other stories like these that illustrate why West is the best
GM in the history of the game.
For a long time I believed that West left the team because of a dispute over
money and power, but I have heard him deny this with his own voice. Only
West knows for sure, but I have enough respect for Jerry to simply accept
his word on the matter and move on.
I have no such respect for Charlie Rosen. From what I have read, I believe
he is a hack writer looking to forward a personal agenda that would see his
career, as it were, go in the same direction as Peter Vescey or Stephen A.
Smith. He is hoping that his inflammatory, psuedo-controversial and shrill
exaggerations, distortions, fabrications and outright lies, will be his
vehicle for success.
At all times Rosen should be aggressively ignored.
Well said. Rosen has been trying to make a career out of ripping Kobe, but
at least there is a kernel of truth to some of the things he's said about
him. Since Jackson left the Lakers a month ago, however, Rosen has ripped
Buss, ripped Kupchak, ripped Tomjanovich, and now he's ripping West.

It's abundantly clear to me that Rosen is a Laker hater and is bent on
carrying out a vendetta against the organization.

I do believe that West wanted to draft Moncrief, but you mentioned the other
things that Rosen left out of his diatribe. West, more than anyone else, was
responsible for putting together the team that won three championships in
2000-02. It was he who signed Shaq as a free agent and it was he who had the
guts and foresight to trade away a quality starting center in his prime for
a 6-6 17-year-old high school kid. And it was he, according to media reports
at the time, who convinced Buss to hire Jackson, overcoming Buss' initial
reluctance to pay top dollar for a coach. It's quite likely, IMO, that
without West's intervention, Jackson would not have been hired as Lakers
coach.

Who the hell is Rosen to pass judgment on an owner with eight championship
trophies? Who the hell is Rosen to pass judgment on man who was widely
respected and admired both as a Hall of Fame player and as probably the best
executive in the history of the game? Even the archrival Celtics loved him.
John Havlicek told him after the 1969 Finals, "Jerry, I love you." Announcer
Johnny Most, the most notorious homer in the history of the game, called him
"Gentleman Jerry." What are Rosen's qualifications? WTF has he ever done in
basketball? Coaching in the freaking CBA? Give me a break.
PeterL
2004-07-22 21:47:12 UTC
Permalink
Hey, some emotion out of Dr. Wong. I love it.
Post by s_knight8
Post by greg brown
By now I believe most Lakers fans are aware of the story of West wanting
to
Post by greg brown
draft Moncrief over Magic. But West is also the guy who insisted on
drafting
Post by greg brown
Worthy over the more hyped "Human Highlight Film", Dominique Wilkins. West
was also responsible for persuading Buss not to trade Worthy for Roy
Tarpley, and Mark Aguirre. West brought in Bob Mcadoo in '81 when everyone
thought McAdoo's career was over. He traded Norm Nixon for the number one
guard drafted in the '93 draft, Byron Scott(I personally thought Norm
was
Post by s_knight8
a
Post by greg brown
better player, but Scott was a better fit for the Lakers). From what I
have
Post by greg brown
read, West was also against the Eddie/Elden for Rice trade. And then there
is the 3 time champions built at the beginning of 2000.
There are many other stories like these that illustrate why West is the
best
Post by greg brown
GM in the history of the game.
For a long time I believed that West left the team because of a dispute
over
Post by greg brown
money and power, but I have heard him deny this with his own voice. Only
West knows for sure, but I have enough respect for Jerry to simply accept
his word on the matter and move on.
I have no such respect for Charlie Rosen. From what I have read, I believe
he is a hack writer looking to forward a personal agenda that would see
his
Post by greg brown
career, as it were, go in the same direction as Peter Vescey or Stephen A.
Smith. He is hoping that his inflammatory, psuedo-controversial and shrill
exaggerations, distortions, fabrications and outright lies, will be his
vehicle for success.
At all times Rosen should be aggressively ignored.
Well said. Rosen has been trying to make a career out of ripping Kobe, but
at least there is a kernel of truth to some of the things he's said about
him. Since Jackson left the Lakers a month ago, however, Rosen has ripped
Buss, ripped Kupchak, ripped Tomjanovich, and now he's ripping West.
It's abundantly clear to me that Rosen is a Laker hater and is bent on
carrying out a vendetta against the organization.
I do believe that West wanted to draft Moncrief, but you mentioned the other
things that Rosen left out of his diatribe. West, more than anyone else, was
responsible for putting together the team that won three championships in
2000-02. It was he who signed Shaq as a free agent and it was he who had the
guts and foresight to trade away a quality starting center in his prime for
a 6-6 17-year-old high school kid. And it was he, according to media reports
at the time, who convinced Buss to hire Jackson, overcoming Buss' initial
reluctance to pay top dollar for a coach. It's quite likely, IMO, that
without West's intervention, Jackson would not have been hired as Lakers
coach.
Who the hell is Rosen to pass judgment on an owner with eight championship
trophies? Who the hell is Rosen to pass judgment on man who was widely
respected and admired both as a Hall of Fame player and as probably the best
executive in the history of the game? Even the archrival Celtics loved him.
John Havlicek told him after the 1969 Finals, "Jerry, I love you." Announcer
Johnny Most, the most notorious homer in the history of the game, called him
"Gentleman Jerry." What are Rosen's qualifications? WTF has he ever done in
basketball? Coaching in the freaking CBA? Give me a break.
Alson Wong
2004-07-22 22:35:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterL
Hey, some emotion out of Dr. Wong. I love it.
It felt GOOD. : )
VicXnews
2004-07-22 23:49:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alson Wong
Post by PeterL
Hey, some emotion out of Dr. Wong. I love it.
It felt GOOD. : )
It feels even better to just ignore rosen...try it...you'll like it!
VicXnews
2004-07-22 23:47:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by s_knight8
Post by greg brown
By now I believe most Lakers fans are aware of the story of West
wanting
to
Post by greg brown
draft Moncrief over Magic. But West is also the guy who insisted on
drafting
Post by greg brown
Worthy over the more hyped "Human Highlight Film", Dominique Wilkins.
West was also responsible for persuading Buss not to trade Worthy for
Roy Tarpley, and Mark Aguirre. West brought in Bob Mcadoo in '81 when
everyone thought McAdoo's career was over. He traded Norm Nixon for
the number one guard drafted in the '93 draft, Byron Scott(I
personally thought Norm was
a
Post by greg brown
better player, but Scott was a better fit for the Lakers). From what
I
have
Post by greg brown
read, West was also against the Eddie/Elden for Rice trade. And then
there is the 3 time champions built at the beginning of 2000.
There are many other stories like these that illustrate why West is
the
best
Post by greg brown
GM in the history of the game.
For a long time I believed that West left the team because of a
dispute
over
Post by greg brown
money and power, but I have heard him deny this with his own voice.
Only West knows for sure, but I have enough respect for Jerry to
simply accept his word on the matter and move on.
I have no such respect for Charlie Rosen. From what I have read, I
believe he is a hack writer looking to forward a personal agenda that
would see
his
Post by greg brown
career, as it were, go in the same direction as Peter Vescey or
Stephen A. Smith. He is hoping that his inflammatory,
psuedo-controversial and shrill exaggerations, distortions,
fabrications and outright lies, will be his vehicle for success.
At all times Rosen should be aggressively ignored.
Well said. Rosen has been trying to make a career out of ripping Kobe,
but at least there is a kernel of truth to some of the things he's
said about him. Since Jackson left the Lakers a month ago, however,
Rosen has ripped Buss, ripped Kupchak, ripped Tomjanovich, and now
he's ripping West.
It's abundantly clear to me that Rosen is a Laker hater and is bent on
carrying out a vendetta against the organization.
I do believe that West wanted to draft Moncrief, but you mentioned the
other things that Rosen left out of his diatribe. West, more than
anyone else, was responsible for putting together the team that won
three championships in 2000-02. It was he who signed Shaq as a free
agent and it was he who had the guts and foresight to trade away a
quality starting center in his prime for a 6-6 17-year-old high school
kid. And it was he, according to media reports at the time, who
convinced Buss to hire Jackson, overcoming Buss' initial reluctance to
pay top dollar for a coach. It's quite likely, IMO, that without
West's intervention, Jackson would not have been hired as Lakers
coach.
Who the hell is Rosen to pass judgment on an owner with eight
championship trophies? Who the hell is Rosen to pass judgment on man
who was widely respected and admired both as a Hall of Fame player and
as probably the best executive in the history of the game? Even the
archrival Celtics loved him. John Havlicek told him after the 1969
Finals, "Jerry, I love you." Announcer Johnny Most, the most notorious
homer in the history of the game, called him "Gentleman Jerry." What
are Rosen's qualifications? WTF has he ever done in basketball?
Coaching in the freaking CBA? Give me a break.
You just said all that needs to be said about rosen...I didn't read the
article...didn't need to...I won't read a word rosen writes
anymore...life is too short even if you live to be 150yo
truegrit
2004-07-23 05:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by greg brown
By now I believe most Lakers fans are aware of the story of West wanting to
draft Moncrief over Magic. But West is also the guy who insisted on drafting
Worthy over the more hyped "Human Highlight Film", Dominique Wilkins. West
was also responsible for persuading Buss not to trade Worthy for Roy
Tarpley, and Mark Aguirre. West brought in Bob Mcadoo in '81 when everyone
thought McAdoo's career was over. He traded Norm Nixon for the number one
guard drafted in the '93 draft, Byron Scott(I personally thought Norm was a
better player, but Scott was a better fit for the Lakers). From what I have
read, West was also against the Eddie/Elden for Rice trade. And then there
is the 3 time champions built at the beginning of 2000.
There are many other stories like these that illustrate why West is the best
GM in the history of the game.
For a long time I believed that West left the team because of a dispute over
money and power, but I have heard him deny this with his own voice. Only
West knows for sure, but I have enough respect for Jerry to simply accept
his word on the matter and move on.
I have no such respect for Charlie Rosen. From what I have read, I believe
he is a hack writer looking to forward a personal agenda that would see his
career, as it were, go in the same direction as Peter Vescey or Stephen A.
Smith. He is hoping that his inflammatory, psuedo-controversial and shrill
exaggerations, distortions, fabrications and outright lies, will be his
vehicle for success.
At all times Rosen should be aggressively ignored.
Greg
All good points. I think another testimonial to Jerry West's ability
as an executive is how the Lakers never underwent a lengthy rebuilding
period where they were uncompetitive, like the Bulls and the Celtics.
After their cornerstone prematurely retired, the Lakers under West
ramped it back up with Van Exel, Jones, Peeler, Divac, etc. before
Shaq and Kobe came along. (there were some dark years, with Pfund and
Dunleavey, but it was a brief interlude)

And like Rosen mentioned, he's doing a pretty good job with the
Grizzlies.

It's pretty difficult to credibly bash the man's track record.

u***@domain.invalid
2004-07-23 03:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Can Rosen stop sucking Jackson's cock for 5 minutes? Give me a break!
Post by s_knight8
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2592722
With all the hullabaloo involved in the Lakers' trading Shaq and re-signing
Kobe, Phil Jackson seems to be the forgotten man. Even worse, after winning
three championships during his five years in Los Angeles (and six in
Chicago), the local L.A. press has taken to denigrating Jackson's
accomplishments.
After all, the argument goes, Jackson was a passive coach who merely rode
the talents of such great players as Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaq
and Kobe (no matter that both MJ and Shaq had been ringless in their six NBA
seasons before benefiting from PJ's counsel). One L.A. media muppet even
branded Jackson's tenure there as "a failed experiment," and he's also been
dismissed as the "Zen Hen."
Say what?
Granted that the scribes who cover the NBA generally can't distinguish an X
from an O, and that they think they can objectively evaluate what a player
does when they have no idea what he's supposed to be doing - the culprit
who's ultimately responsible for these peevish, ignorant judgments is none
other than Jerry West.
The truth is that before Jackson blew into town, West was the Lakers
executive VP for basketball operations yet was profoundly dissatisfied with
the terms of his employment. Although West was paid approximately $700K per
season, he yearned for at least $1 million. Also, West felt that since he'd
been part of the organization ever since the Lakers relocated from
Minneapolis in 1960 (as All-Star player, then as coach, consultant and
general manager), he deserved to be given a piece of the team. After all,
Magic Johnson didn't arrive in La-La Land until 1979 and Jerry Buss had
presented him with a part-ownership deal soon after his retirement.
Moreover, for lo these many years West had taken (and been universally
granted) the credit for drafting Magic out of Michigan State. This momentous
decision was, in fact, the cornerstone of West's claim to administrative
greatness.
The fact of the matter, however, is that West was determined to use the
Lakers' first pick (and the NBA's first overall) to draft not Magic, but
Sidney Moncrief. It was only after prolonged hours of being convinced
otherwise by both Bill Sharman and Chick Hearn that West finally yielded and
selected Magic.
West has likewise taken credit for building the Magic-Jabbar-Worthy dynasty,
when it was Sharman who did much of the planning.
Did both Shaq and Kobe come to L.A. during West's watch? Certainly, but here
again, others pulled the strings - various combinations of lawyers and
businessmen, and in O'Neal's case, Dale Brown.
Even so, Jerry West was an icon in Tinseltown. Not only was he Mister Clutch
and the Logo-Man, he was also Mister Laker. The local media adored him and
hung on his every pronouncement. Only when Jackson signed his five-year, $30
million contract with the Lakers did Dr. Buss finally grant West the
million-dollar pact he'd been seeking for so long. Still, from the get-go,
West was resentful of Jackson's presence. Why should Jackson be hailed as
the franchise's savior when West had been performing miracles on and off the
court for more than 40 years? Besides, back when they'd competed against
each other, West wasn't appreciative of Jackson's aggressive elbows.
The very first pronouncement of West's that I personally witnessed occurred
just before the Lakers' initial preseason practice session in October 1999.
As a longtime friend of Jackson's, I felt obliged to offer West a small
warning: "Phil's teams always start off slowly while they're learning the
triangle."
West's sour response was this: "He's got six weeks."
Turned out that after six weeks, the Lakers were 31-6 and West was even more
resentful than before. His most wished-for scenario was for the Lakers to
collapse and for Buss to beg him to save the team. Part-ownership, unlimited
power, bucks galore - Buss would gladly accede to whatever West required.
When West's dream turned into a personal nightmare, he began to actively
undermine Jackson.
Part of Jackson's game plan was to create an environment where the players
mostly disciplined themselves. This, because he understood that any
directives coming from civilians are viewed by players as being
heavy-handed, intrusive, and misguided. (So when Pippen refused to play in
the infamous "1.8 Seconds Game" against the Knicks, it was his teammates who
effectively reprimanded him.) But word was leaked from West to friendly L.A.
journalists that Jackson was a do-nothing coach. Also that the triangle was
bogus and that Kobe was being underutilized. With West as the conduit, the
previously secret news of Jackson's relationship with Jeannie Buss was fed
to scandal-hungry press-peepers in Chicago.
And so it went: Overpaying draft picks to constrict the money available for
free agents. Not providing the backup big man the Lakers needed. Spreading
rumors that Kobe was going to sue Jackson for defamation of character. And
generally promulgating ubiquitous undercurrents of disrespect.
Has West done an admirable job in resurrecting the fortunes of the Memphis
Grizzlies? Absolutely.
In so many other aspects, however, West's squeaky-clean reputation as a
genius is less than meets the eye.
NOTE - Because Jackson always accepts personal responsibility for his own
failings, I relied on other sources for all of the above information.
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