Discussion:
A benchmark loss for Blazers
(too old to reply)
s_knight8
2003-12-08 16:31:25 UTC
Permalink
http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1070888310191171.xml

The Blazers had leads of as many as 15 points in the first half behind
the relentless inside play of Zach Randolph, who scored 17 of his 29
points in the first half.

But as Randolph battled foul trouble in the second half, limiting him
to 18 minutes, the Blazers abandoned their inside attack and settled
for jump shots.

Stoudamire tried to justify the Blazers' second-half offense by saying
the team had no inside options once Randolph was forced to the bench
with fouls, but when he questioned why Wallace couldn't fill that
void, Stoudamire relented.

"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."

Wallace finished with 13 points, nine rebounds and five blocks in 41
minutes. But in the second half, with Randolph out of the game,
Wallace had just two points and three rebounds. Three of Wallace's
five shots were three-pointers.

"For me, I'm not really into getting after him in the newspapers,"
Stoudamire said. "But I was going to talk to him about this anyway,
because he is a friend. I don't think these are necessarily strong
words; it's just what we need to do. We need him to post up more, not
take jumpers, especially when it's James Posey guarding him."
bozak
2003-12-08 18:04:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by s_knight8
"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."
calling jermaine o'neal... :-)
Terraholm
2003-12-08 19:12:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by bozak
Post by s_knight8
"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."
calling jermaine o'neal... :-)
So 'Sheed's game would be different if it was Jermaine instead of Zach?
Head to head last week: Jermaine 18 pts on 19 shots, Zach 34 pts on 21
shots. =)
--
Laurel T
"In my prime I could have handled
Michael Jordan. Of course,
he would be only 12 years old."
Jerry Sloan
b***@sbcglobal.net
2003-12-08 19:23:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Post by bozak
Post by s_knight8
"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."
calling jermaine o'neal... :-)
So 'Sheed's game would be different if it was Jermaine instead of Zach?
Head to head last week: Jermaine 18 pts on 19 shots, Zach 34 pts on 21
shots. =)
She gives no quarter. Too bad she can't put on a uni for those clowns.
Post by Terraholm
--
Laurel T
"In my prime I could have handled
Michael Jordan. Of course,
he would be only 12 years old."
Jerry Sloan
Terraholm
2003-12-08 19:47:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@sbcglobal.net
Post by Terraholm
Post by bozak
Post by s_knight8
"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."
calling jermaine o'neal... :-)
So 'Sheed's game would be different if it was Jermaine instead of Zach?
Head to head last week: Jermaine 18 pts on 19 shots, Zach 34 pts on 21
shots. =)
She gives no quarter.
I am not defending 'Sheed, Damon is right.
What is wrong with the argument about Zach?
I like Randolph's game. If they had kept Jermaine then Zach (or any PF)
would likely not have been drafted by Portland so it is not like they would
be playing together now.
Zach is one of 4 players averaging over 20 and 10 rbs. The other 3 are
Duncan KG and Jermaine.


http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_regular_season_leaders/LeagueLeadersEFFQuery.html

http://www.dougstats.com/03-04Tendex.html
Post by b***@sbcglobal.net
Too bad she can't put on a uni for those clowns.
lol..... I have no inside game either...=)
--
Laurel T
"If Jordan loves the game so much,
why does he keep quitting?"
Cal Ripken
Terraholm
2003-12-09 04:35:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Zach is one of 4 players averaging over 20 and 10 rbs. The other 3 are
Duncan KG and Jermaine.
Correction, 5 players Shaq is back over 20 ppg now.
bozak
2003-12-08 19:44:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Post by bozak
Post by s_knight8
"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."
calling jermaine o'neal... :-)
So 'Sheed's game would be different if it was Jermaine instead of Zach?
Head to head last week: Jermaine 18 pts on 19 shots, Zach 34 pts on 21
shots. =)
so youre saying you wouldnt want to see jermaine and zach play
together...

blinded by the light...
Terraholm
2003-12-08 20:56:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by bozak
so youre saying you wouldnt want to see jermaine and zach play
together...
blinded by the light...
If they had kept Jermaine they would not have drafted Zach.
--
Laurel T
"Wallace is a riddle wrapped in a mystery,
wrapped in a headband." S.I.
bozak
2003-12-08 20:58:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Post by bozak
so youre saying you wouldnt want to see jermaine and zach play
together...
blinded by the light...
If they had kept Jermaine they would not have drafted Zach.
then why did they draft woods???
Terraholm
2003-12-08 21:41:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by bozak
Post by Terraholm
Post by bozak
so youre saying you wouldnt want to see jermaine and zach play
together...
blinded by the light...
If they had kept Jermaine they would not have drafted Zach.
then why did they draft woods???
Because they needed a SF. Pippen was starting his final season. They also
had visions of using him for a big PG. When they drafted Woods at the end of
Zach's rookie season I doubt they already knew Zach would be worth moving
'Sheed to SF to give him a start this year.
--
Laurel T
"If Jordan loves the game so much,
why does he keep quitting?"
Cal Ripken
bozak
2003-12-08 21:53:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Post by bozak
Post by Terraholm
Post by bozak
so youre saying you wouldnt want to see jermaine and zach play
together...
blinded by the light...
If they had kept Jermaine they would not have drafted Zach.
then why did they draft woods???
Because they needed a SF. Pippen was starting his final season. They also
had visions of using him for a big PG. When they drafted Woods at the end of
Zach's rookie season I doubt they already knew Zach would be worth moving
'Sheed to SF to give him a start this year.
seems like you are reaching here... everything i remember about that
draft stated woods was going to play the four...

but then again, your team is the blazers... :-)
Dan
2003-12-08 22:04:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by bozak
Post by Terraholm
Because they needed a SF. Pippen was starting his final season. They
also had visions of using him for a big PG. When they drafted Woods
at the end of Zach's rookie season I doubt they already knew Zach
would be worth moving 'Sheed to SF to give him a start this year.
seems like you are reaching here... everything i remember about that
draft stated woods was going to play the four...
bozak, I hate to break this to you, because it's so "uncommon" for you to be
wrong..you are wrong. No one said he was a PF.

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/qyntelwoods.htm

positions: SG and SF.

not too many players play both SG and PF.

He was compared (probably wrongly) to McGrady. He played PG in high school.

http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/2002_draft/Players/woods.shtml

lists him as a SG

maybe you're thinking of the wonderboy.
--
" I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who
do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means "put
down."-- Bob Newhart
bozak
2003-12-08 23:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by bozak
Post by Terraholm
Because they needed a SF. Pippen was starting his final season. They
also had visions of using him for a big PG. When they drafted Woods
at the end of Zach's rookie season I doubt they already knew Zach
would be worth moving 'Sheed to SF to give him a start this year.
seems like you are reaching here... everything i remember about that
draft stated woods was going to play the four...
bozak, I hate to break this to you, because it's so "uncommon" for you to be
wrong..you are wrong. No one said he was a PF.
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/qyntelwoods.htm
shit happens... ;-)

my bad...
Post by Dan
positions: SG and SF.
not too many players play both SG and PF.
He was compared (probably wrongly) to McGrady. He played PG in high school.
no shit... he doesnt seem to play at all with you guys...
Post by Dan
http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/2002_draft/Players/woods.shtml
lists him as a SG
maybe you're thinking of the wonderboy.
what a cruel bastid you are...
Dan
2003-12-08 23:52:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by bozak
Post by Dan
Post by bozak
Post by Terraholm
Because they needed a SF. Pippen was starting his final season.
They also had visions of using him for a big PG. When they drafted
Woods at the end of Zach's rookie season I doubt they already knew
Zach would be worth moving 'Sheed to SF to give him a start this
year.
seems like you are reaching here... everything i remember about that
draft stated woods was going to play the four...
bozak, I hate to break this to you, because it's so "uncommon" for
you to be wrong..you are wrong. No one said he was a PF.
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/qyntelwoods.htm
shit happens... ;-)
my bad...
no problem, Im wrong often too.
Post by bozak
Post by Dan
positions: SG and SF.
not too many players play both SG and PF.
He was compared (probably wrongly) to McGrady. He played PG in high school.
no shit... he doesnt seem to play at all with you guys...
I think they're (the team) worried he's hanging out with idiots (non team)
and are thinking of trading him.
Post by bozak
Post by Dan
http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/2002_draft/Players/woods.shtml
lists him as a SG
maybe you're thinking of the wonderboy.
what a cruel bastid you are...
8)
--
" I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who
do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means "put
down."-- Bob Newhart
bozak
2003-12-08 23:58:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by bozak
Post by Dan
Post by bozak
Post by Terraholm
Because they needed a SF. Pippen was starting his final season.
They also had visions of using him for a big PG. When they drafted
Woods at the end of Zach's rookie season I doubt they already knew
Zach would be worth moving 'Sheed to SF to give him a start this
year.
seems like you are reaching here... everything i remember about that
draft stated woods was going to play the four...
bozak, I hate to break this to you, because it's so "uncommon" for
you to be wrong..you are wrong. No one said he was a PF.
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/qyntelwoods.htm
shit happens... ;-)
my bad...
no problem, Im wrong often too.
yeah but people expect that from you... :-)
Post by Dan
Post by bozak
Post by Dan
positions: SG and SF.
not too many players play both SG and PF.
He was compared (probably wrongly) to McGrady. He played PG in high school.
no shit... he doesnt seem to play at all with you guys...
I think they're (the team) worried he's hanging out with idiots (non team)
and are thinking of trading him.
is he any good??? if he is gong the route of jermaine o'neal we will
gladly take him... you like rick fox??? :-)
Post by Dan
Post by bozak
Post by Dan
http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/2002_draft/Players/woods.shtml
lists him as a SG
maybe you're thinking of the wonderboy.
what a cruel bastid you are...
8)
--
" I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who
do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means "put
down."-- Bob Newhart
Dan
2003-12-09 00:14:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by bozak
Post by Dan
I think they're (the team) worried he's hanging out with idiots (non
team) and are thinking of trading him.
is he any good??? if he is gong the route of jermaine o'neal we will
gladly take him... you like rick fox??? :-)
he can be, but he's not getting minutes just yet. Sometimes, you see flashes
of a good player in him. He has a good shot, form, and everything, but
sometimes he just goes up weak, like he's still at a JC.

as for your rick fox comment..you go to hell! you go to hell and you die!

8)
--
" I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who
do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means "put
down."-- Bob Newhart
Terraholm
2003-12-09 01:08:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by bozak
is he any good???
Tons of talent, as raw as blooby beef.....
Post by bozak
if he is gong the route of jermaine o'neal we will
gladly take him...
He ate up the summer league. At the start of the season they thought he
would have a good year like Zach's 2nd season. Has not proved the case so
far. He still looks raw.
Post by bozak
you like rick fox??? :-)
Dan's favorite player...
--
Laurel T
"If God is so good, how come
he didn't give you a jump shot?"
Said Sir Charles to AC...
bozak
2003-12-09 01:52:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Post by bozak
is he any good???
Tons of talent, as raw as blooby beef.....
Post by bozak
if he is gong the route of jermaine o'neal we will
gladly take him...
He ate up the summer league. At the start of the season they thought he
would have a good year like Zach's 2nd season. Has not proved the case so
far. He still looks raw.
Post by bozak
you like rick fox??? :-)
Dan's favorite player...
lol...
Jeff Mayner
2003-12-09 08:58:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by bozak
Post by Dan
Post by bozak
Post by Terraholm
Because they needed a SF. Pippen was starting his final season.
They also had visions of using him for a big PG. When they drafted
Woods at the end of Zach's rookie season I doubt they already knew
Zach would be worth moving 'Sheed to SF to give him a start this
year.
seems like you are reaching here... everything i remember about that
draft stated woods was going to play the four...
bozak, I hate to break this to you, because it's so "uncommon" for
you to be wrong..you are wrong. No one said he was a PF.
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/qyntelwoods.htm
shit happens... ;-)
my bad...
no problem, Im wrong often too.
Ooff... Over the net, not returnable.

Great backhand! ;-)

Jeff
Post by Dan
Post by bozak
Post by Dan
positions: SG and SF.
not too many players play both SG and PF.
He was compared (probably wrongly) to McGrady. He played PG in high school.
no shit... he doesnt seem to play at all with you guys...
I think they're (the team) worried he's hanging out with idiots (non team)
and are thinking of trading him.
Post by bozak
Post by Dan
http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/2002_draft/Players/woods.shtml
lists him as a SG
maybe you're thinking of the wonderboy.
what a cruel bastid you are...
8)
--
" I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who
do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means "put
down."-- Bob Newhart
toad
2003-12-09 01:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by bozak
Post by Terraholm
Because they needed a SF. Pippen was starting his final season. They
also had visions of using him for a big PG. When they drafted Woods
at the end of Zach's rookie season I doubt they already knew Zach
would be worth moving 'Sheed to SF to give him a start this year.
seems like you are reaching here... everything i remember about that
draft stated woods was going to play the four...
bozak, I hate to break this to you, because it's so "uncommon" for you to be
wrong..you are wrong. No one said he was a PF.
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/qyntelwoods.htm
positions: SG and SF.
not too many players play both SG and PF.
He was compared (probably wrongly) to McGrady. He played PG in high school.
He was compared to McGrady and was touted as a top pick in the draft at one
point. Never a PF, always a SG/SF swing.
Terraholm
2003-12-09 00:59:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by bozak
Post by Terraholm
Because they needed a SF. Pippen was starting his final season. They also
had visions of using him for a big PG. When they drafted Woods at the end of
Zach's rookie season I doubt they already knew Zach would be worth moving
'Sheed to SF to give him a start this year.
seems like you are reaching here... everything i remember about that
draft stated woods was going to play the four...
He was touted as a Tracy McGrady type, and because he had played point as
the next Pippen. I can find you quotes from him about being happy to learn
the role from Pip.

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/qyntelwoods.htm
Recruiting analyst Bob Gibbons says that some pro scouts are calling him
another Tracy McGrady.

Here's what Gibbons had to say about Woods:
A team that may surprise a lot of people is Memphis. They've got the best
juco player in the country in this Qyntel Woods (6-8, NE Mississippi JC).
Talking to NBA scouts that have been to see him, they think he's Tracy
McGrady. He can play point guard, second guard, small forward. I've talked
to three NBA scouts that have been down there and they say if he comes out
he would be taken among the top two or three picks. Of course, for (John)
Calipari -- who's already lost Amare Stoudemire (6-10, Orlando), who will
definitely go pro -- the challenge is to keep Woods by saying, "I can get
you better prepared to go to NBA."
Post by bozak
but then again, your team is the blazers... :-)
For better or worse....=)
--
Laurel T
"When asked if he was a basketball player:
"No I clean giraffe ears."
Elvin Hayes
Granville Waiters' Ghost
2003-12-09 03:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Post by bozak
Post by s_knight8
"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."
calling jermaine o'neal... :-)
So 'Sheed's game would be different if it was Jermaine instead of Zach?
Head to head last week: Jermaine 18 pts on 19 shots, Zach 34 pts on 21
shots. =)
No, I'm pretty sure this one is the fault of those mean-spirited
Portland sportswriters too. They kept shooting Rasheed Wallace
dirty looks. A few of them even had those crazy whirlygig things
and were whipping them around behind the basket, which left him
totally hypnotized.
Terraholm
2003-12-09 04:25:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Granville Waiters' Ghost
Post by Terraholm
Post by bozak
Post by s_knight8
"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."
calling jermaine o'neal... :-)
So 'Sheed's game would be different if it was Jermaine instead of Zach?
Head to head last week: Jermaine 18 pts on 19 shots, Zach 34 pts on 21
shots. =)
No, I'm pretty sure this one is the fault of those mean-spirited
Portland sportswriters too.
Nah, Damon is just jealous because 'Sheed has a better 3 pt %....=)
--
Laurel T
The league has informed the Blazers
that Wallace and the team will be fined the next
time Wallace ignores his responsibilities
to speak to members of the media.
Wallace was unavailable to comment.
Chainsaw
2003-12-08 19:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by s_knight8
"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."
ZOINNNNNG!!!!!!!

Wow.
brink
2003-12-08 19:42:23 UTC
Permalink
"s_knight8" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...
http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/107088831
0191171.xml
Post by s_knight8
The Blazers had leads of as many as 15 points in the first half behind
the relentless inside play of Zach Randolph, who scored 17 of his 29
points in the first half.
But as Randolph battled foul trouble in the second half, limiting him
to 18 minutes, the Blazers abandoned their inside attack and settled
for jump shots.
Stoudamire tried to justify the Blazers' second-half offense by saying
the team had no inside options once Randolph was forced to the bench
with fouls, but when he questioned why Wallace couldn't fill that
void, Stoudamire relented.
"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."
but according to laurel, that canzano guy is the only sheed hater. sounds
like stoudamire is saying pretty much exactly what he's been saying all this
time.
Post by s_knight8
Wallace finished with 13 points, nine rebounds and five blocks in 41
minutes. But in the second half, with Randolph out of the game,
Wallace had just two points and three rebounds. Three of Wallace's
five shots were three-pointers.
"For me, I'm not really into getting after him in the newspapers,"
Stoudamire said. "But I was going to talk to him about this anyway,
because he is a friend. I don't think these are necessarily strong
words; it's just what we need to do. We need him to post up more, not
take jumpers, especially when it's James Posey guarding him."
Terraholm
2003-12-08 20:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by brink
Post by s_knight8
"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."
but according to laurel, that canzano guy is the only sheed hater. sounds
like stoudamire is saying pretty much exactly what he's been saying all this
time.
Lots of people dislike 'Sheed and/or rip on his game for not being down in
the post more. Most do not drip venom in daily newspaper articles over it.
Dirk plays the same kind of game with out the defensive effort and gets
praised because he can hit 3s.
Right now 'Sheed is also about their only real outside threat until Person
finds his shot.
--
Laurel T
"There are really only two plays; Romeo and Juliet,
and put the darn ball in the basket."
- Abe Lemons
brink
2003-12-08 20:53:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by s_knight8
"Hey, I love 'Sheed to death," Stoudamire said. "And I want him to
want the ball more; I want him to tell me, 'Give me the damn ball.' I
want that. We need that to be the team we can be. But right now, Zach
is our only inside presence."
but according to laurel, that canzano guy is the only sheed hater.
sounds
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
like stoudamire is saying pretty much exactly what he's been saying all
this
Post by brink
time.
Lots of people dislike 'Sheed and/or rip on his game for not being down in
the post more. Most do not drip venom in daily newspaper articles over it.
Dirk plays the same kind of game with out the defensive effort and gets
praised because he can hit 3s.
maybe that's because dirk is a much better player at this point? shoots
better, scores better, rebounds better.
Post by Terraholm
Right now 'Sheed is also about their only real outside threat until Person
finds his shot.
--
Laurel T
"There are really only two plays; Romeo and Juliet,
and put the darn ball in the basket."
- Abe Lemons
Terraholm
2003-12-08 21:35:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Lots of people dislike 'Sheed and/or rip on his game for not being down in
the post more. Most do not drip venom in daily newspaper articles over it.
Dirk plays the same kind of game with out the defensive effort and gets
praised because he can hit 3s.
maybe that's because dirk is a much better player at this point? shoots
better, scores better, rebounds better.
Dirk has always been a better rebounder. 'Sheed is a better defender. Not
the point.

Dirk is shooting 46% and 27% on 3s and Dallas needs a post player a lot
worse than Portland. 'Sheed is shooting 42% ( pretty low for him but he
started low last year too) 34% on 3s. Dirk takes about 3 per game, 'Sheed 4.
--
Laurel T
"There are really only two plays; Romeo and Juliet,
and put the darn ball in the basket."
- Abe Lemons
brink
2003-12-08 22:13:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Lots of people dislike 'Sheed and/or rip on his game for not being
down
Post by Terraholm
in
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
the post more. Most do not drip venom in daily newspaper articles over
it.
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Dirk plays the same kind of game with out the defensive effort and gets
praised because he can hit 3s.
maybe that's because dirk is a much better player at this point? shoots
better, scores better, rebounds better.
Dirk has always been a better rebounder. 'Sheed is a better defender. Not
the point.
Dirk is shooting 46% and 27% on 3s and Dallas needs a post player a lot
worse than Portland.
why? their problem isn't -- never has been -- scoring. i'll take dirk's
scoring efficiency with nearly any PF in the league.

their defense is what's not up to par, and that's overall team defense, not
like just at PF.

'Sheed is shooting 42% ( pretty low for him but he
Post by Terraholm
started low last year too) 34% on 3s. Dirk takes about 3 per game, 'Sheed 4.
--
Laurel T
"There are really only two plays; Romeo and Juliet,
and put the darn ball in the basket."
- Abe Lemons
Terraholm
2003-12-09 00:52:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Lots of people dislike 'Sheed and/or rip on his game for not being
down
Post by Terraholm
in
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
the post more. Most do not drip venom in daily newspaper articles over
it.
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Dirk plays the same kind of game with out the defensive effort and
gets
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
praised because he can hit 3s.
maybe that's because dirk is a much better player at this point?
shoots
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
better, scores better, rebounds better.
Dirk has always been a better rebounder. 'Sheed is a better defender. Not
the point.
Dirk is shooting 46% and 27% on 3s and Dallas needs a post player a lot
worse than Portland.
why? their problem isn't -- never has been -- scoring.
So no inside game is not a problem in Dallas? Could have fooled me...
Post by brink
i'll take dirk's
scoring efficiency with nearly any PF in the league.
I am glad you did not say 'over'...=)
Post by brink
their defense is what's not up to par, and that's overall team defense, not
like just at PF.
We are comparing 2 players. The rip on 'Sheed is he does not stay in the
post anymore, that he drifts out to the 3 point line. While Dirk is praised
for his range instead.
--
Laurel T
"Every time 'Sheed took a shot he said
`Don't worry young fella, I get paid for this.
I get paid for doing this to you',"
- Kwame Brown
Rosskolnikov
2003-12-09 02:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
We are comparing 2 players. The rip on 'Sheed is he does not stay in the
post anymore, that he drifts out to the 3 point line. While Dirk is praised
for his range instead.
Let's just cut to the chase: the reason Dirk is praised while 'Sheed is
villified is because Dirk has the good sense not to make a complete ass out
of himself.

1. 'Sheed's lack of on-court leadership: ridiculous given his experience
and salary

2. 'Sheed's technicals in years past: ridiculous even if you assume half
of them were on reputation alone

3. 'Sheed's marijuana arrest while on the open road: asinine

4. 'Sheed's stance toward the media: completely counter-productive

5. 'Sheed's towel incident with Sabonis: idiotic and immature

'Sheed's problems in Portland are his fault and his fault alone,
irregardless of whether or not the media has been fair towards him. When
he realizes this and admits it to himself, he can begin to rehabilitate his
career and reputation. It's too bad because he seems to have some good
qualities, and at times he has some pretty good game.

-RS
Terraholm
2003-12-09 04:03:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Post by Terraholm
We are comparing 2 players. The rip on 'Sheed is he does not stay in the
post anymore, that he drifts out to the 3 point line. While Dirk is
praised
Post by Terraholm
for his range instead.
Let's just cut to the chase: the reason Dirk is praised while 'Sheed is
villified is because Dirk has the good sense not to make a complete ass out
of himself.
Sheed has plenty to critisize. That is not the point.
I am talking about taking 3 or 4 three point attempts over playing in the
post that they are harping about. Focus...
--
Laurel T
"In my prime I could have handled
Michael Jordan. Of course,
he would be only 12 years old."
Jerry Sloan
Dan
2003-12-09 06:35:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Post by Rosskolnikov
Post by Terraholm
We are comparing 2 players. The rip on 'Sheed is he does not stay
in the post anymore, that he drifts out to the 3 point line. While
Dirk is praised for his range instead.
Let's just cut to the chase: the reason Dirk is praised while
'Sheed is villified is because Dirk has the good sense not to make a
complete ass out of himself.
Sheed has plenty to critisize. That is not the point.
I am talking about taking 3 or 4 three point attempts over playing
in the post that they are harping about. Focus...
one of the reasons sounds a lot like the following sentance.

"Dirk is a Sherman, and also blight."
--
" I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who
do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means "put
down."-- Bob Newhart
brink
2003-12-09 07:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan
Post by Terraholm
Post by Rosskolnikov
Post by Terraholm
We are comparing 2 players. The rip on 'Sheed is he does not stay
in the post anymore, that he drifts out to the 3 point line. While
Dirk is praised for his range instead.
Let's just cut to the chase: the reason Dirk is praised while
'Sheed is villified is because Dirk has the good sense not to make a
complete ass out of himself.
Sheed has plenty to critisize. That is not the point.
I am talking about taking 3 or 4 three point attempts over playing
in the post that they are harping about. Focus...
one of the reasons sounds a lot like the following sentance.
"Dirk is a Sherman, and also blight."
yep. the american media *adores* european players. ;-)
brink
2003-12-09 02:58:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by brink
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Lots of people dislike 'Sheed and/or rip on his game for not being
down
Post by Terraholm
in
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
the post more. Most do not drip venom in daily newspaper articles
over
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
it.
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Dirk plays the same kind of game with out the defensive effort and
gets
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
praised because he can hit 3s.
maybe that's because dirk is a much better player at this point?
shoots
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
better, scores better, rebounds better.
Dirk has always been a better rebounder. 'Sheed is a better defender.
Not
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
the point.
Dirk is shooting 46% and 27% on 3s and Dallas needs a post player a lot
worse than Portland.
why? their problem isn't -- never has been -- scoring.
So no inside game is not a problem in Dallas? Could have fooled me...
probably not vs. about 26 teams in the league. when they run into LA or SA,
yeagh probably, but then again they're 2-0 vs. SA this season, and everyone
has trouble vs. LA and SA anyway.

again, it's their defense that seems to lose them more games, though i'll
concede that having a post presence to get folks like duncan or shaq in foul
trouble falls under "your best defense is a good offense."
Post by brink
Post by brink
i'll take dirk's
scoring efficiency with nearly any PF in the league.
I am glad you did not say 'over'...=)
he's probably equally productive with any PF in the league on offense,
though obviously he's not nearly as useful on the defensive end as duncan,
KG, or o'neal.
Post by brink
Post by brink
their defense is what's not up to par, and that's overall team defense,
not
Post by brink
like just at PF.
We are comparing 2 players. The rip on 'Sheed is he does not stay in the
post anymore, that he drifts out to the 3 point line. While Dirk is praised
for his range instead.
honestly, do you think anyone would *really* care if sheed was playing
dirk's long-range game ifg he were putting up dirk 02-03 numbers? sheed's
problem is his scoring and FG% keep dropping. and there appears to be a
correlation between this and the blazers' record.
Terraholm
2003-12-09 04:20:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
why? their problem isn't -- never has been -- scoring.
So no inside game is not a problem in Dallas? Could have fooled me...
probably not vs. about 26 teams in the league. when they run into LA or SA,
yeagh probably, but then again they're 2-0 vs. SA this season, and everyone
has trouble vs. LA and SA anyway.
Are those not the teams they have to get by to get to the next level?

None the less I am comparing the style between two players.
Post by brink
again, it's their defense that seems to lose them more games, though i'll
concede that having a post presence to get folks like duncan or shaq in foul
trouble falls under "your best defense is a good offense."
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
i'll take dirk's
scoring efficiency with nearly any PF in the league.
I am glad you did not say 'over'...=)
he's probably equally productive with any PF in the league on offense
Productive yes, above you were saying effecient. He is down the list a
little on scoring effeciency.

,
Post by brink
though obviously he's not nearly as useful on the defensive end as duncan,
KG, or o'neal.
Or 'Sheed, Webber, malone...
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
their defense is what's not up to par, and that's overall team defense,
not
Post by brink
like just at PF.
We are comparing 2 players. The rip on 'Sheed is he does not stay in the
post anymore, that he drifts out to the 3 point line. While Dirk is
praised
Post by Terraholm
for his range instead.
honestly, do you think anyone would *really* care if sheed was playing
dirk's long-range game ifg he were putting up dirk 02-03 numbers?
The media that hate him for other reasons would.
Post by brink
sheed's
problem is his scoring and FG% keep dropping.
'Sheed took 400 less shots, 40 less 3s last year.
% last year was 47% - 36% and 46%-38% for 'Sheed and Dirk
Post by brink
and there appears to be a
correlation between this and the blazers' record.
They won 50 games the last year he shot 50% and took few 3s and he averaged
17 pts. They won 49 games the next year and he averaged 19, and 50 last year
and he averaged 18.
--
Laurel T
I don't hate anyone, at least not for
more than 48 minutes, barring overtime."
Charles Barkley
brink
2003-12-09 06:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by brink
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
why? their problem isn't -- never has been -- scoring.
So no inside game is not a problem in Dallas? Could have fooled me...
probably not vs. about 26 teams in the league. when they run into LA or
SA,
Post by brink
yeagh probably, but then again they're 2-0 vs. SA this season, and
everyone
Post by brink
has trouble vs. LA and SA anyway.
Are those not the teams they have to get by to get to the next level?
sure. but there's no shame in being the 3rd or 4th best team in the league.

wilt and his teammates were no slobs just cause he couldn't get past
russell's celtics all those years.
Post by brink
None the less I am comparing the style between two players.
Post by brink
again, it's their defense that seems to lose them more games, though i'll
concede that having a post presence to get folks like duncan or shaq in
foul
Post by brink
trouble falls under "your best defense is a good offense."
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
i'll take dirk's
scoring efficiency with nearly any PF in the league.
I am glad you did not say 'over'...=)
he's probably equally productive with any PF in the league on offense
Productive yes, above you were saying effecient. He is down the list a
little on scoring effeciency.
not when you figure in 3PTFG% efficiency, which sets him apart from guys
like duncan, KG, and o'neal. since a substantial number of his attempts are
of the 3pt variety, of course his ovearll FG% will be lower. but of course,
you have to bump uyp his efficiency stats accordingly because of the fact
that 38% 3PTFG translates to a 57% FG for that portion of his overall
attempts.
Post by brink
,
Post by brink
though obviously he's not nearly as useful on the defensive end as duncan,
KG, or o'neal.
Or 'Sheed, Webber,
webber isn't very effective spending half the season in street clothes.
Post by brink
malone...
i was comparing him to players of whom he is an equal offensively. that's
duncan, KG, and o'neal. he's *better* offensively than sheed, webber, and
malone.
Post by brink
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
their defense is what's not up to par, and that's overall team
defense,
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
not
Post by brink
like just at PF.
We are comparing 2 players. The rip on 'Sheed is he does not stay in the
post anymore, that he drifts out to the 3 point line. While Dirk is
praised
Post by Terraholm
for his range instead.
honestly, do you think anyone would *really* care if sheed was playing
dirk's long-range game ifg he were putting up dirk 02-03 numbers?
The media that hate him for other reasons would.
well the media "hate" shaq and they seem to think his game is fine for the
most part, because, well, it is.
Post by brink
Post by brink
sheed's
problem is his scoring and FG% keep dropping.
'Sheed took 400 less shots, 40 less 3s last year.
% last year was 47% - 36% and 46%-38% for 'Sheed and Dirk
i'm guessing that's why his scoring is dropping.
Post by brink
Post by brink
and there appears to be a
correlation between this and the blazers' record.
They won 50 games the last year he shot 50% and took few 3s and he averaged
17 pts. They won 49 games the next year and he averaged 19, and 50 last year
and he averaged 18.
well no wonder the rose garden is packed out with that kind of consistency.
;-)
Terraholm
2003-12-09 15:47:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
None the less I am comparing the style between two players.
Post by brink
again, it's their defense that seems to lose them more games, though
i'll
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
concede that having a post presence to get folks like duncan or shaq in
foul
Post by brink
trouble falls under "your best defense is a good offense."
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
i'll take dirk's
scoring efficiency with nearly any PF in the league.
I am glad you did not say 'over'...=)
he's probably equally productive with any PF in the league on offense
Productive yes, above you were saying effecient. He is down the list a
little on scoring effeciency.
not when you figure in 3PTFG% efficiency, which sets him apart from guys
like duncan, KG, and o'neal. since a substantial number of his attempts are
of the 3pt variety, of course his ovearll FG% will be lower. but of course,
you have to bump uyp his efficiency stats accordingly because of the fact
that 38% 3PTFG translates to a 57% FG for that portion of his overall
attempts.
'Sheed is one of the top 3 for career high 2pt % among active players (or
was still last season) 3rd behind Shaq.
Does not change the fact he is also the current best 3 pt shooter on the
Blazers and the media was after him even during the first 10 or so games
when he was shooting 44% on 3s but 41 % overall for playing too much
outside.
Now do you think if he was in Dallas or anywhere else that would have been
the case?
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
We are comparing 2 players. The rip on 'Sheed is he does not stay in
the
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
post anymore, that he drifts out to the 3 point line. While Dirk is
praised
Post by Terraholm
for his range instead.
honestly, do you think anyone would *really* care if sheed was playing
dirk's long-range game ifg he were putting up dirk 02-03 numbers?
sheed's
problem is his scoring and FG% keep dropping.
'Sheed took 400 less shots, 40 less 3s last year.
% last year was 47% - 36% and 46%-38% for 'Sheed and Dirk
i'm guessing that's why his scoring is dropping.
400 less than Dirk, not 400 less than his normal APG.

His scoring is down 2 pts this season from giving Zach the ball. Should
Shaq be critized for only averaging 20 this season?
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
and there appears to be a
correlation between this and the blazers' record.
They won 50 games the last year he shot 50% and took few 3s and he
averaged
Post by Terraholm
17 pts. They won 49 games the next year and he averaged 19, and 50 last
year
Post by Terraholm
and he averaged 18.
well no wonder the rose garden is packed out with that kind of
consistency.
Post by brink
;-)
Shot the hell out of your argument though. =)
--
Laurel T
Wallace: "They already know what I'm going to say.
It's already etched in their reporters' manual."
Cheeks: "What? 'Just ballin?' "
Wallace: "No . . . Good game. Both teams played hard."
brink
2003-12-09 17:11:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
None the less I am comparing the style between two players.
Post by brink
again, it's their defense that seems to lose them more games, though
i'll
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
concede that having a post presence to get folks like duncan or shaq
in
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
foul
Post by brink
trouble falls under "your best defense is a good offense."
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
i'll take dirk's
scoring efficiency with nearly any PF in the league.
I am glad you did not say 'over'...=)
he's probably equally productive with any PF in the league on offense
Productive yes, above you were saying effecient. He is down the list a
little on scoring effeciency.
not when you figure in 3PTFG% efficiency, which sets him apart from guys
like duncan, KG, and o'neal. since a substantial number of his attempts
are
Post by brink
of the 3pt variety, of course his ovearll FG% will be lower. but of
course,
Post by brink
you have to bump uyp his efficiency stats accordingly because of the fact
that 38% 3PTFG translates to a 57% FG for that portion of his overall
attempts.
'Sheed is one of the top 3 for career high 2pt % among active players (or
was still last season) 3rd behind Shaq.
Does not change the fact he is also the current best 3 pt shooter on the
Blazers and the media was after him even during the first 10 or so games
when he was shooting 44% on 3s but 41 % overall for playing too much
outside.
Now do you think if he was in Dallas or anywhere else that would have been
the case?
probably not, he'd actually fit right into their "system."
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
We are comparing 2 players. The rip on 'Sheed is he does not stay in
the
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
post anymore, that he drifts out to the 3 point line. While Dirk is
praised
Post by Terraholm
for his range instead.
honestly, do you think anyone would *really* care if sheed was playing
dirk's long-range game ifg he were putting up dirk 02-03 numbers?
sheed's
problem is his scoring and FG% keep dropping.
'Sheed took 400 less shots, 40 less 3s last year.
% last year was 47% - 36% and 46%-38% for 'Sheed and Dirk
i'm guessing that's why his scoring is dropping.
400 less than Dirk, not 400 less than his normal APG.
His scoring is down 2 pts this season from giving Zach the ball. Should
Shaq be critized for only averaging 20 this season?
the media have been merciless with shaq, haven't you been watching? ;-)
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
Post by Terraholm
Post by brink
and there appears to be a
correlation between this and the blazers' record.
They won 50 games the last year he shot 50% and took few 3s and he
averaged
Post by Terraholm
17 pts. They won 49 games the next year and he averaged 19, and 50 last
year
Post by Terraholm
and he averaged 18.
well no wonder the rose garden is packed out with that kind of
consistency.
Post by brink
;-)
Shot the hell out of your argument though. =)
true.

are you happy with sheed's game? and attitude?
Terraholm
2003-12-09 20:14:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by brink
Post by brink
well no wonder the rose garden is packed out with that kind of
consistency.
Post by brink
;-)
Shot the hell out of your argument though. =)
true.
are you happy with sheed's game? >
Not all of it. I wish he was a better rebounder. He does not have the nose
for the ball that Zach does or perhaps does not put out the effort. I am
glad he came in somewhat in better shape but he is still starting slow
again. I like his defense and that he calls the defense for the team. He
is starting at SF, I find no reason to criticize him for using his range.
and attitude?
I hated his tantrums and wondering if he would spend half a game in the
lockerroom so I am glad he cut down on Ts and does not get the second one.
(Cheeks leads the team in Ts this year...)
I wish 'Sheed would be more dominate on the offensive end, but then how many
would be unselfish enough fit their game to a younger upcoming player? Play
out of position and feed the scoring machine?
So I think there is room in the league for being unselfish. And when he has
been shoved into taking more shots his % drops so perhaps it is his best
game and I can live with that.

I could care less that he will not talk to the media and the off court
attitude except they are going to run him out of town over it.
--
Laurel T
You can tell a gelding,
you can ask a mare,
but you must discuss it with a stallion.
-unknown horseman
Dan
2003-12-09 22:13:08 UTC
Permalink
my only complaint about Rasheed *this year* is that outside of Zach
Randolph, no one is picking up the scoring slack.

Rasheed is averaging good #'s (not shooting great) but there's no 3rd
scorer. Some say he was traded (and to a small degree thats true) but he
(bonzi) felt as tho he should be the #1 option.

once a 3rd scorer (14-15 a game) is found, the team should be better. Zach
22, Sheed 18, and Fred Sanford, 15, and then 13 and 12..not bad.

then the bench should produce more than it is.
--
" I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who
do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means "put
down."-- Bob Newhart
Ron Loewy
2003-12-09 17:20:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by brink
honestly, do you think anyone would *really* care if sheed was playing
dirk's long-range game ifg he were putting up dirk 02-03 numbers? sheed's
problem is his scoring and FG% keep dropping. and there appears to be a
correlation between this and the blazers' record.
I ran a linear regression between his PPG and the Blazer's Win percentage
and got a 0.563 correclation - with 0.32 r-squared - there is a correlation
there, but it is weak.

Ran the same regression between his FG% and the Win % and got an even lower
correlation.

Ron.
Loading...